Ever wondered or witnessed how corruption rules the third world? Coming from a third world "super power" that is run by the corrupt, the ethics of economics is completely fascinating and worrying. How can we change this?
-
Re: Economics of Corruption
Tue, January 3, 2006 - 2:26 PMNot just the "third world" ;-)
It's a very interesting problem though. One I've been thinking about a lot since the scandal blew-up here in Brazil this year.
I'm not claiming I have the solution, but I have been working on something I think may be interesting to people who want to fight corruption. It's a sort of mapping tool which will help you organize and publish information you have about complex systems - and this can include following convoluted stories about bribary and secret meetings between politicians.
But it's not quite ready for release yet. Keep watching this space and I'll hopefully announce it here soon. -
-
Re: Economics of Corruption
Tue, January 3, 2006 - 7:30 PMGood Lord Phil, you may save the world yet.
Corruption is a global phenomena. It's amazing here in the USA since Bush took office the number of lobbyists have doubled while at the same time their compensation nearly did too www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...pf.html
So what's amazing is in this rich climate that so many added a truly criminal actions to pad the wallet.
A free press is surely one of the ways to check corruption; and that's just one good reason to defend a free press. But there is widespread dissatisfaction with the press here in the USA. Oddly the traditional press here says in so many words that because people on both the left and the right are unhappy, they must be doing it right. Oh s#4%!
There was an interesting discussion about blogs at FireDogLake and Digby.
Jane Hamsher wrote three really good posts about blogs; start here at "Dirty Rotten Bloggers firedoglake.blogspot.com/2006_...349274
and then scroll up to "Link You Huskies, Link" and then up to "Linky, Link."
I guess a NYT's piece on blogs set it off, and Digby weighs in too digbysblog.blogspot.com/2006_0...0703026
Neither Jane Hamsher nor Digby is suggesting doing away with the traditional press--they're news junkies. But they make some good points about how bloggers and reporters are different. Jane writes:
>I can only speak about my own experience, as someone who regularly converses with numerous journalists who cover the CIA leak case for the purpose of getting a better understanding of what's going on. And these are remarkably smart people, because I'm not going to waste my time talking to the dumb ones. But their job is to stay on the phone all day and cultivate sources, and their memories probably don't extend a whole lot further than the article they wrote yesterday.
They do not spend the hours and days sifting through raw data now available to average people on the internet.<
And Digby says that blogs fill in the gaps.
I think that blogs are a significant development for fighting corruption. Not the answer, of course, but a part of it. Especially with people like Phil creating tools to build on the stregnths of the medium.
-
-
Re: Economics of Corruption
Tue, January 3, 2006 - 3:52 PMOh, and this is worth a read : 3quarksdaily.blogs.com/3quark..._i.html -
-
Re: Economics of Corruption
Wed, January 4, 2006 - 8:08 AMIn India, it is quite common to say that the most powerful postion is not the President, Prime Minister or Intelligence Agencies....it is the peon....the uneducated, low standing paper pusher. It all starts with him. You have to pay him $5 to get a signature, then $10 to the person above him and so on. It turns into a chain, whereby everyone wants to make their quota before they lift a finger. The problem is soooo widespread that simple whistle blowing or reporting on it is not effective. They need to be incentivized to stop doing this....to get rid of the thought that is OK to extort people. If you ask me its all a question of money....government officials and the like need to be paid a much higher salary and hence not feel that they need to extort people.....then again with a population of 1+ billion.....good luck -
-
Re: Economics of Corruption
Wed, January 4, 2006 - 5:08 PMKaraaan, thanks for bringing up this very interesting subject. Corruption is as they say: "a problem from hell." Like most complicated problems no part of the interactive system will have unilateral control over any other part of it. So it solutions are like dancing with a partner. Transparency at the highest levels is important, but as you quite rightly point out it's corruption on the most basic levels, the big base of they pyramid, that seems the most intractable.
A couple of things came ot mind about this level of corruption. Before container ships stevedores and longshoremen had much more direct contact with stuff. A certainly percentage would "disappear" and could be more or less factored into the shipping costs. Much of this loss was at the hands of stevedores and longshoremen who found it advantegeous to organize for bargining power.
"Loss of stuff" was part of the equation, but longshoremen kept a check on this, mainly through informal or workplace "culture." It was alright to steal, but only up to a point. Stealing on a grand scale was discouraged because it set up competition which might undermine the advantages of organization.
Again, perhaps not so much in today's chain resturants, but still in the play in the resturant business is some workplace culturally regulated stealing that's partly reenforced by the "tip" part of the business model. Woe to the waiter who tries to cheat the busboy's or bartender out of their percentage of tips. And a waiter who tries to steal from another waiter, double woe. But on the other hand a certain amount of theft maybe tolerated. For example a bar owner may tolerate a certain amount of "free drinks" given by a bartender as essentialy promotion. Likewise a certain percentage of the wine or liquor bill might be "given" to employees in order to grease the wheels. Surplus food given out or even factored in for similar reasons.
In both situations are informal "checks" on the level of corruption that serve to reduce competition among employees to maximize theft, and in fact to "regulate" it so it remains within tolerences. There are advantages for the system to seem fair.
The situation with the "low standing paper pushers" seems somewhat similar, the bribe seems only fair. In a resturant we know that the prices on the menu do not reflect the whole cost of the meal, that an additional 12%--20% must be added as a matter of custom. It seems that one way to reduce the corrosive effects of corruption at this level might be to regularize the amount for various services. In other words if it's $5 for a signature it's $5 and never $50. Clearly there can be a range, say $3- $6, the important thing is that the amount is predictable over time.
People imagine that the cash they give to waiters isn't taxed. That's not true, because the Internal Revenue Service understands the percentage and taxes accordingly. A similar realism about the "tradition" of offering the paper pusher $5 for a signature and taxing accordingly is one institutional control.
Finally another point. Micropayment cards are an interesting new business which might have bearing on this level of corruption; at least so far as regularizing the amount of it. Gratuities--the $5 under the table--could become that much more legitimate transactions.
Micropayment cards also have great potential to accelerate the legitimacy of alternative currencies because they allow for the record keeping of small real money transfers into alternative currencies.
-
Re: Economics of Corruption
Wed, January 4, 2006 - 6:18 PM[quote]If you ask me its all a question of money....government officials and the like need to be paid a much higher salary and hence not feel that they need to extort people....[/quote]
See here is the problem with the more liberal path to law enforcement. Some one needs to get elected or rise up through the civil service who thinks the corruption needs to stop. After this miracle he needs to pay a small army well to act as his enforcers. Track down the corruption, and punnish it. A few exicutions of high level officials with evidence of gross missuse of the public trust is a good way to start. Make all the underlings think twice. If big boss man gets a public trial and just as public an exicution everyone starts thinking twice. Even a large crime boss wanting to go legit could pull it off the person need not be a saint just dedicated and have the loyal firepower to clean up.
Problem is this isnt likely either. Anyone with that much power only gets it by being corrupt. While punnishing corruption is a good way to maintain your power base, you have to clean up your act at some point along the way. There is just too much money in corruption for it to be given up easily.
-
-
Re: Economics of Corruption
Wed, January 4, 2006 - 10:07 PM[quote]
See here is the problem with the more liberal path to law enforcement ...
[/quote]
Vlad. Am I right in thinking you use "liberal" as synonymous with "top-down"?
I'm curious as to what the private sector solution to bribery is? You never hear that the Vice President of Marketing of MegaCorp was caught taking bribes. I wonder why. Is it because there's no incentive in private corporations? Or are there correcting mechanisms that don't exist in government? Or is it that what's called "corruption", simply isn't considered "bad" in the private sector?
[quote]It turns into a chain, whereby everyone wants to make their quota before they lift a finger. The problem is soooo widespread that simple whistle blowing or reporting on it is not effective. They need to be incentivized to stop doing this....to get rid of the thought that is OK to extort people.[/quote]
and
[quote]Transparency at the highest levels is important, but as you quite rightly point out it's corruption on the most basic levels, the big base of they pyramid, that seems the most intractable. [/quote]
One possible attempt to solve this low-level bribe-taking by minor gatekeepers might be to automate the whole thing. A web-site won't ask for bribes to submit your form. :-)
-
-
Re: Economics of Corruption
Thu, January 5, 2006 - 4:45 AM[quote]One possible attempt to solve this low-level bribe-taking by minor gatekeepers might be to automate the whole thing. A web-site won't ask for bribes to submit your form. :-) [/quote]
agreed.
[quote][quote]
See here is the problem with the more liberal path to law enforcement ...
[/quote]
Vlad. Am I right in thinking you use "liberal" as synonymous with "top-down"? [/quote]
No I meant touchy feely throw money at the problem. Just paying government employees better will not stop government corruption just look at the US if you want proof. People dont demand bribes becasue they NEED money they demand bribes because they are in a position to do so and dont fear being caught at it.
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Economics of Corruption
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 8:40 PMbackspace.com/notes/2003/10/16/x.html
This is a short piece with some good examples of dealing with corruption reporting on the work of Transparency International local chapters work in various countries
www.transparency.org/
It's strange in a way that we often look to governments to solve corruption when so often governments are corrupt. Politics clearly isn't limited to electorial politics as important as that is. Politics also involves citizen action which reveal and discourage corruption in social institutions. -
-
Re: Economics of Corruption
Tue, January 24, 2006 - 12:07 PMInteresting thoughts. Will have to have a look through transparency.org, but thoughts of a webabase* to make up for the lack of a public memory are making me excited as I type. Anyway, back to on-tribe. A recap/re-statement as I understand it.. Apologies for the academic style...
1. Power without transparency/accountability leads to corruption.
2. One can almost consider corruption as an unofficial market of services. Personal gain (in order to just do something for someone) or benefit (in order to have something done quicker/favourably) certainly fits in with the neo-classical model of self-interested human behaviour and trade.
3. People "outside" the system (i.e. without access to it, or without resources to bribe with) are kept "out" by a vicious cycle of power reinforcement.
* Intentional buzzword propaganda that I just invented. "Web-fronted database" = a webabase. :)
Possible Solutions:
1. Take Tha Pow'r Back. Force, whether physical or political, can install new structures of accountability/transparency. Whichever method is used to achieve this, it's likely to a) be codified somehow, and b) require a level of "external" enforcement to keep reality in line with the (a). Of course, this enforcement itself is similarly subject to the "rules" of non-integral human behaviour.
2. Some kind of economic incentive built into the system to avoid unofficial corruption - *redistribution* of personal benefit, in other words. This also has to be installed somehow, but if the people it applies to *willingly* turn away from the prior corruption, then forced installation might not be necessary.
Of course, there will be some things that people in power will want to keep secret, no matter what - military records, dubious international transactions, etc. But aside from these, is there a way to encourage, rather than force, open behaviour? Or will people continue to take bungs so long as it's above and beyond what they get from the system anyway?
I don't know much about developing countries and governments. Here in the UK though, it might be analogous to the idea of "commercial privacy" within public projects - things are closed off to the public because either it means people would be afriad to speak the truth, or the secrecy of a transaction infers a lower cost. These are excuses, but leave the system open (or closed :) to/for corruption as a result.
Curses. I wanted to suggest a possible solution here, but I'm kind of stumped and I've written enough already.
Bah, humbug.
-