Let’s Talk Turkey About Greece

topic posted Sun, May 27, 2012 - 6:22 PM by  B

1) Greece is very likely to exit the Euro.

2) When Greece exits the Euro it will be punished severely by the monetary authorities. They intend to let Greeks starve. They will cut off food supplies, and Greeks will not be able to afford food. Oil is also going to be a problem. Greeks will probably not be able to flee to other countries.

3) The reason they will punish the Greeks is because they can. They couldn’t punish the Argentinians or the Icelanders, because both those countries can feed themselves. They can punish the Greeks. They need to make an example, because they are worried about Spain, Portugal, Ireland and other countries. (Heck, even the Dutch are having problems. The Dutch! If the Dutch can’t make it in the Euro, no one can.) This isn’t, contra Lagarde about “bad Greeks”, while it is true that Greece should never have been let in to the Euro, well, everyone knew that. Including the countries that let Greece in.

4) Greece is going to have get hardcore and creative about creating a new economy. Since the monetary authorities intend to starve them and deprive them of oil, they must retaliate hard. Greece has a number of options, and this is what Greece should do You don’t play nice with people who are trying to cause a famine in your country.

* Greece has a large fleet. Use it to strip mine the Mediterranean of all resources possible. Yes, the Med is a fragile ecosystem. If the other Euros don’t like it, they can not punish Greece, otherwise Greece will have to feed itself. The Euros could send fleets, but as the British-Iceland fishing war proved, that’s prohibitively expensive.
* Start gun-running and other black market activities up. European gun-running currently goes through Albania. Greece has much better ports. If the Euros don’t like it, they can militarize Greece’s borders at a cost much higher than feeding the Greeks.
* Become a full on black-hole for banking. If anyone wants to store money in Greece, they can. No questions asked, no forms needed.
* Make deals with other “pariah” and semi-pariah nations. Start with Iran and Russia for oil (Iran will be happy to give oil in exchange for black market help). Make a deal with various 2nd world nations for food, start with Argentina, they have no reason to love the IMF or the European Union, which promised to “punish” them for nationalizing oil in Argentina. In exchange Greece can offer use of their fleet, for cheap, and port rights for the Russian navy. They’ve wanted a true warm water port for some time. Offer them a nice island in the Med with a 30 year lease.
* Hold on for a couple years. Odds are that soon enough Ireland, Spain, Portugal and maybe others will leave the Euro. They won’t be in any mood to screw Greece for their ex-Euro masters. Heck, odds are 50/50 that there won’t be a Euro zone at all in 3 years, since Germany wants to screw everyone, including France.
* Nationalize basically every industry. It’s unfortunate, but it’s going to be necessary. Hundreds of billions of dollars have fled Greece in the past 3 years, in fact that was one of the main reasons for dragging out the “bailouts” (really, bailouts of German banks), to let the money flee. All Greek assets are going to be frozen overseas, so the Greeks will need to work with what they have.
* No more money goes out of the country. Slap on currency controls, to make sure what money is there doesn’t leave (this is aimed at Greece’s rich). If any banker or anyone else circumvents them, throw them in jail, the sentence should be life, generous, since they are committing treason.
* Seriously change the tax system, and insist on really taxing the rich. Go to heavily progressive taxation, reduce the burden on the poor (a large number of people now), this will buy support.
* A food rationing system, with cards and delivery to every person in the country will be necessary. It won’t be fun, but combined with the above, you can make sure that no one starves.

Greece has been under siege for years now, and traitors within its own country (its politicians) have betrayed it. This means Greeks are in serious danger of suffering a famine. The response to that, by Greeks, will have to be pragmatic and severe. If non-Greeks don’t like it, that’s too bad. When millions of people are in danger of starving, a country does what it has to.
posted by:
offline B
  • Re: Let’s Talk Turkey About Greece

    Sun, June 3, 2012 - 3:12 PM
    The first thing Greece had to do is learn to work for a living and make themselves productive. Slash their government to a skeleton crew and quit retiring at 40 and taking two months off every year. The rest of it will work itself out in time. Some people need to starve. If you won't do what you need to, in order to feed your family then you should starve. Sure there are exceptions for honestly CAN'T but that's the exception not the rule and those people will just have to find something or some one willing to support them. As you point out there are miles of coast line with abundant seafood and while it may mean picking your lawn clean of the weeds instead of using herbicides on it, most of those "weeds" being edible goes a long way to helping out. Don't think I'm sitting here as a fat American judging others, after all I have no doubt it's on it's way here too. That is why intelligent people are fleeing the cities and educating themselves on what it will take to feed themselves. That includes how to hide or remove the hoard of locusts that flee the cities AFTER it's already too late. Welcome to the harsh realities of life. No it didn't have to be this way and YES governments in collusion with banking cartels have caused it (with a lot of help from the lazy and the willfully ignorant) but that doesn't change the fact that the game is over and it's time to go back to working for a living.
  • B
    offline 123

    Re: Let’s Talk Turkey About Greece

    Sun, June 3, 2012 - 5:10 PM
    What Greece should do next

    Greece is in the unenviable position of having to make a choice between forced austerity or leaving the Euro. The question is why is the decision so hard and taking so long?

    The best course for Greece is to leave the Euro and the failed financial system which benefits a few members countries and world financial institutions at the expense of the citizens of Greece.

    But if Greece is to leave the Euro it should do so in a manner that will provide the maximum benefit for the citizens. Which means that it's time to default on all the debts and blow up the banks.

    Greece was the birthplace of democracy and it should now be the birthplace of a democratic financial system. Greece can rid itself of the totalitarian fractional reserve banking system, based on credit (i.e. ever growing debts) and institute a new financial system as a model for the rest of the Eurozone and the world.

    Instead of bank issued money which is only created with attached interest (debt) Greece should institute a system of Social Credit where the money is created and issued by the government in an amount sufficient for commerce and government expenditures within the country.

    The new currency should be based on the system of demurrage not interest. This system of currency was tested in Worgl Austria during the Great Depression and in hundreds of other towns across the US. Where it was implemented the cities and towns prospered while surrounding cities and towns remained in the grips of the Depression.

    Greece can go one step further with the new currency and that would be to create an electronic peer to peer currency, The currency would itself be a piece of software that could be exchanged by small deceives, computers or even cell phones. It would be passed from device to device directly without needing to be processed through an account in a bank computer. This would afford every person the security of knowing they alone controlled their money with no possibility of a bank run, or bank error that would freeze or worse loose a persons money.

    Similar to Bitcoin as an encrypted currency it would also have a half life imbedded in each 'coin' that would implement the reverse interest or demurrage. Each 'coin' would have a fixed value which would be small enough to allow for micro transactions of single 'coins' allowing small purchases.

    The currency being peer to peer and encrypted would be anathema to most governments which desire to track and control the money flows in the world. But to that one must ask are they doing such a good job of it now that we really want them to continue to control the peoples finances. Money is a tool for the people to allow for commerce and should not be the means to control citizens of a country.

    The majority of people will use the currency for wholly legitimate purposes, being commerce of goods and services. A few will use the currency for illegal activities much as they do now with bank controlled currencies most of the time with the banks full knowledge of the activities while skimming off the banks share of profits. If this is your intention then shame on you.

    Criminal activity has never been eliminated in the entire history of humankind. The only way to eliminate such activities is to force all transactions to be processed via a government controlled bank which will track every detail of the transaction. Do we really want this form of currency, financial control and tracking?

    The adoption of a peer to peer currency that would be non-traceable would make Greece a pariah nation with the financial powers that currently have the worlds reserve currency. Namely the U.S. and to a lesser extent the Euro which for all intents and purposes right now is controlled by the Bundesbank.

    But there are enough nations interested in breaking the hold of the U.S. dollar as the world reserve currency for Greece to find trading partners. Russia, China and Iran come to mind immediately.

    And let's not forget that Germans love to vacation in the Greek Isles. They will be the first to exchange their Euros for the new currency.

    Greece will also have a unique opportunity to export the new currency and the tools to use it to Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Italy as these countries start to seek alternatives to their forced austerity programs and failed banking system.

    There are a many other options open to Greece to force the use of its new currency on the rest of the world. For example open a massive pornography data center where all purchases have to be made in the new untraceable electronic currency. Producers in many countries would be interested in moving their operations to Greece to find some stability. And customers will follow also seeing a benefit to using a peer to peer untraceable currency. The producers being an enterprising lot will find a way to convert the new currency to hard assets.

    And we have other suggestions such as these from Ian Welsh. [1]

    It has been said that according to both the Mayan and Hindu calendars 2012 mark the change from darkness to enlightenment. As history has shown change can start in the most unexpected places and spread like a virus. An idea whose time has come is a powerful contagion.

    There is a unique opportunity in Greece to make a fundamental break with the current banking and currency system. An opportunity to be a model for the world and to spark a revolution in the meaning and purpose of money. Money controlled by the people and for the benefit of the people not the banks.
  • Re: Let’s Talk Turkey About Greece

    Wed, September 5, 2012 - 6:36 PM
    Physically - if you draw a box around the country and it is not self sustaining in resources -- then it must import food , energy , raw materials.

    For many years the Greeks have been spending Euros to buy all these resources.

    Why not have the Greeks - sell some land islands to pay back all the spent resources ??

    There are a lot of Billionaires who would pay for some nice islands in the Meditteranean.

    They could raise 20 to 40 Billion Euros.

    Just like British Petroleum selling their refineries and oil producing reservoirs - they raise $30 billion dollars.

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